Monday, March 14, 2011
Is Bassanio True?
Not only the film adaptation but the play as well suggest the possibility of a love relationship between Bassanio and Antonio. He could be using Portia therefore as a means of obtaining 1) financial independence, and 2) acceptance by the heterosexual community while wishing to continue his relationship with Antonio. What, based on the casket scene, do you think Bassanio's motive and feelings truly are?
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I think it is clear that Antonio loves Bassanio. The biggest example of his love is Antonio's willingness give a pound of flesh to Shylock for Bassanio to get what he wants. I do not think that Bassanio feels the same way for Antonio. I think Bassanio truly does love Portia (especially the idea of her). I don't think that Bassanio has homosexual feelings for Antonio but is using and manipulating all of those feelings to get as much as he can and elevate his status. I think the feelings that truly guide him are greed and self-absorption, something that Portia comments on when she asks what "treason" is mingled with his love.
ReplyDeleteThanks, 0e87f05 etc. for being the first to respond! Can you change your log-in so that your identity is apparent to me and to your classmates? Thanks! So you think it's a one-way relationship and that Bassanio is using Antonio to get ahead. What do the rest of you think?
ReplyDeleteI also agree that it is clear that Antonio loves Bassanio; but I also agree that Bassanio does not feel the same way. Their relationship is evidently very close and loving, but I think that Bassanio really just cares for Antonio as a friend and truly loves Portia. I really don't think that Bassanio is only going to Portia for financial reasons, although I definitely think that money is an aspect of his motivation; it is more loving than that though, Bassanio seems to think that she is beautiful and lovely. I think it is clear that the reason why Antonio is so upset is because he is love sick, maybe even without knowing it, though. He seems to not have a clear idea of why he is depressed, but I think it is evident that he has very strong feelings for Bassonio, which was made even more clear in Act 2 scene 8, lines 35-49. This passage shows how gentle and kind he is with Bassanio.
ReplyDeleteIt seems evident that Bassanio is very important to Antonio, and that the two care very much for one another and trust each other. However, I am hesitant to assume that this means either one has homosexual feelings for the other. Nonetheless, I agree with what Nancy said that it comes off as though Antonio has stronger feelings for Bassanio than the other way around. I suppose this could be so extreme as to say he is in love with him, especially considering Solanio's commentary: "I think he [Antonio] only loves the world for him [Bassanio]" -2.9.52. If this is true, I wonder if it is a conscious love that Antonio has hidden or if he is not even quite aware of his feelings for Bassanio. In Macbeth, many of the character's inner thoughts were revealed with soliloquies or asides, and we have not heard anything like this from Antonio yet, which is why I think it's possible that he is not even fully aware of what his feelings for Bassanio mean.
ReplyDeleteAnother thought is that based on the movie, Antonio seemed a good deal older than Bassanio. If this is the case, perhaps his love for him is more like father/son... this could explain his loneliness/sadness and account for the fact that he doesn't have a family of his own.
As Nancy discussed, it seems that Antonio and Bassanio do indeed love each other, but in different ways. Bassanio admires and depends on Antonio, and treats him like a father-figure, while Antonio seems to want a certain recognition from Bassanio that he has yet to give. I'm glad Torie said she is hesitant about jumping to conclusions about Antonio's sexuality because while I think he may love and to some extent be in love with Bassanio, I don't know if it's quite fair yet to say he is immersed in the idea of "being with" Bassanio. I wasn't able to see the casket scene today, but based on the section that we watched last week, it seems that Bassanio is not trying to fulfill any societal expectations by being heterosexual, but possibly some about the idea of marrying Portia, as mentioned. Nevertheless, this conflict is evident and I think that as Antonio continues helping Bassanio with money or advice, the tension will also increase.
ReplyDeleteWhile I definitely agree I agree with Andrew's interpretation that Bassanio and Antonio do love each other but for different reasons. I definitely saw the types of love in Act 3 scene 3 lines 270-274 when Bassanio is telling Portia about the bond and refers to Antonio as a "dear friend". In my opinion, if I was talking about the man I loved secretly a "dear friend" would not be the words I choose but then again it is a different time and different words meant different things. For Antonio, I guessed his feeling were deeper in hearing his letter. The last line in particular stood out for me, "If your love do not persuade you to come, let not my letter" 333-334. Antonio has come to terms with Bassanio's love for Portia and her beauty, and with the last few lines states that do not come if you feel guilty, only come to me if you love me and the love that we shared meant something. Though Bassanio is coming to help him I think the language will tell if he comes to Antonio in friendship or in love.
ReplyDeleteTo add onto what others have been saying, I believe that Antonio does indeed have some amount of love for Bassanio. This love is very easily observed in the movie version of the play yet it is also apparent in the text as well. However, I believe that Bassanio simply doesn't love Antonio in that way, or at least to that extent. The line that epitomize this for me can be found in act 3, scene 2, lines 304-308, the dearest friend to me, the kindest man, the best conditioned and unwearied spirit in doing courtesies, and one in whom the ancient roman honor more appears than any that draws breath in Italy". This is an incredibly respectful and heartfelt comment, that to me, is meant fully by Bassanio. It is this line that makes me wholeheartedly believe that Bassanio does love Antonio, but as a dear friend instead of as a lover. I also think, based on Bassanio's spoken word directed at Portia, that he does indeed love her as a lover.
ReplyDeleteI agree with Andrew when he says that Bassanio loves Antonio as more of a mentor and father figure. But I do think that Antonio is truly in love with Bassanio as husband. I think that Bassanio is too distracted by Portia to be in love with Antonio as a husband. Bassanio is wrapped up in his love of her beauty and wealth that I find it impossible that he could be in love with a man.
ReplyDeleteHi all, I'm actually posting Zia's contribution which she sent to me because she couldn't get on.
ReplyDeleteGo Zia!
3.1.57-67:
“Hath not a Jew eyes? Hath not a Jew hands, organs,dimensions, senses, affections, passions? Fed with the same food, hurt with the same weapons,
subject to the same diseases, healed by the same
means, warmed and cooled by the same winter and
summer as a Christian is? If you prick us, do we not bleed? If you tickle us, do we not laugh? If you poison us, do we not die? And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge? If we are like you in the rest, we will resemble you in that.”
I agree with what Sarah and Andrew said. I'm not sure whether I like Shylock but he is certainly a sympathetic character. He shows evilness yet we also see his losses in the forms of Jessica, Lancelet, and the general bigotry aimed at him. I think this speech is the most powerful so far of the play. This is the best evidence I have seen from Shakespeare as to why we should feel sorry
for Shylock. This speech (if Jew and Christian were replaced with other words), could represent any group of oppressed people. It shows how all
people are really the same and is very advanced thinking for Shakespeare's time. Was Shakespeare really anti-Semetic if he could write so articulately about the plight of a Jewish man?
I agree with those above who said that Antonio and Bassanio have a very close relationship, but that Antonio has stronger feelings for Bassanio than Bassanio has for him. Part of me feels as if Bassanio plays up any romance that may be present in their relationship while asking for the money in order to seduce Antonio into giving him the money. I agree with Dylan that Bassanio is infatuated with Portia and her wealth and beauty, and is willing to give up any relationship he could have with Antonio to do so. Bassanio and Antonio's relationship seems to be one that they both know is relatively unrealistic in the context of the society they live in.
ReplyDeleteI will write a different comment on Bassanio but I just wanted to say that I completely agree with Zia about Shylock's speech. I find it extremely hard to believe that an anti-Semitist could write such an eloquent and compelling argument against anti-Semitism and against virtually all forms of discrimination. For this reason, I do not see Shakespeare as an anti-Semitist.
ReplyDeleteIt's hard to add new ideas to the mix after so many people have already commented. Regardless, here's my take on things. I, along with the majority of the class, believe that Bassanio is not bound romantically to Antonio. Bassanio clearly has strong ties to Antonio in the realms of friendship and finance. However, even if Bassanio and Antonio have had a sexual relationship in the past, I do not think that Bassanio has strong enough feelings for Antonio to merit renouncing his relationship with Portia, a character for whom he expresses extreme attraction and love. In the casket scene, Bassanio speaks to his "demigod" Portia in a romantic tone that seems wholly authentic. He finds himself "bereft...of all words," speachless in the presence of his new, beautiful wife. Though he leaves before the wedding to help Antonio in Venice, the situation seems clearly to me to be that of a man temporarily leaving his lover to go help his friend.
ReplyDeleteI am inclined to think, like many others, that Bassanio does not share Antonio’s homosexual affection. I agree with Dylan and Anna that Bassanio seems to love Portia but that his love may be better characterized as infatuation with her beauty and wealth. This infatuation was especially apparent to me when he opens the lead casket to discover Portia’s picture inside, and then proceeds to gush about her goddess-like beauty (3.2.122-130). I think that, in this scene especially, the actor has immense control over the audience’s perception of Bassanio’s true feelings. If the actor’s words seem false and forced, it could suggest that Bassanio has ulterior motives. However, if the actor chooses to make the lines sincere, the audience would see Bassanio as an infatuated man. As others have mentioned, the way in which Bassanio talks about Antonio indicates that he loves him as a friend or as a father figure. He repeatedly calls Antonio “good friend” or “dear friend” and asserts that he is a kind and honorable man (3.2.304-308).
ReplyDeleteBassanio does seem to care about Antonio, at least as a friend -- he's appalled that Antonio would endanger himself on his account, and he speaks highly of Antonio to Portia (when he has no obligation to speak so well of his friend). However, he doesn't seem as unilaterally focused and devoted as Antonio. If he does have romantic feelings for Antonio, they don't overpower his desire to have a wife, especially a rich, beautiful, and intelligent wife who will raise his status and make a good partner for him. Whether Bassanio is gay or not is up for debate; it was far more common for gays to marry in those days, and even to carry on homosexual relationships while married.
ReplyDeleteI agree with what a few people have said that while Antonio and Bassanio undoubtedly care very much for one another, this affection may not essentially be sexually driven. Prior to Act 3 Scene 2 it seemed to me that Antonio’s affection for Bassanio may have been stronger. However, this is based off of the limited evidence we were afforded in the beginning of the play and while it was Antonio that did offer his money and services to Bassanio, it wasn’t until 3.2 that we were able to see how Bassanio would respond to Antonio’s troubles. When Bassanio receives the news of Antonio’s misfortune, Portia states: “Some dear friend dead, else nothing in the world / Could turn so much the constitution / Of any constant man.” I believe this shows that Bassanio cares just as much for Antonio as Antonio does for him.
ReplyDeleteBased on the text, both Antonio and Portia are very affectionately tied to Bassanio, and Bassanio seems to be interested in each of them as he can gain advantage (and especially wealth) from them. However, it is clear from what we have already read that Bassanio does have an emotional attachment to Antonio that is at least friendship; in addition, 3.2 makes it rather clear that Bassanio is infatuated with Portia's beauty and status, as well as her wealth. Even if we recall that in Renaissance-era Italy, having a heterosexual and a homosexual relationship occur concurrently was not uncommon, Shakespeare certainly SHOWS more of Bassanio's affection toward Portia than that toward Antonio, and seems to be implying that the former relationship is stronger/less one-sided. I certainly *hope* that Bassanio's infatuation with Portia grows into a true appreciation and love by the end of the play, as it seems that the two of them could be happy together (whereas Antonio and Bassanio could never have a truly legitimate relationship, which is a major part of Antonio's melancholy nature).
ReplyDeleteI believe Bassanio is truly in love with Portia, but feels immense guilt over using Antonio's love to his advantage. In lines 304 - 308 in Act 3, scene two, Bassanio's description of Antonio to me is not one of love or romantic affection, but rather a realization that Antonio truly is the kindest man in his life, who even when Bassanio was at the very bottom was willing to help him back up on his feet. Bassanio doesn't love Antonio, but his strong feeling of adoration and respect for him causes immense guilt over having taken sexual advantage of Antonio in the past, especially now that Antonio is going to have to pay the (fatal) price of Bassanio's loan.
ReplyDeleteWhy is everyone saying that Bassanio is in love with Portia? From what little I know of the text, the two "lovers" have only met once. While Bassanio does mention that Portia is quite attractive, he seems more interested in the fact that she has a LOT of money. But thats practical isn't it? As a man with a lot of debt, I don't think he has the luxury of choosing who he wants to love. Ironically enough, he's in the same position as Portia. And they both see each other as the only possible option... its as if its destiny.
ReplyDeleteThanks one and all, once again, for this discussion. Sorry if it seemed to get redundant, and thanks, Alex (once again) for your "devil's advocate" stance. I would like to entertain the possibility at least that Bassanio is shallow and empirical in his affection for Portia, even if we reject that later. I think we're inclined both by our own culture's heterocentrism and by our ideas about Renaissance Italy to think that Bassanio couldn't really love Antonio. I think our preconception of his being a romantic hero leads us to wish him sincere. But does his praise of Portia's beauty and money really indicate love? Let's wait and see.
ReplyDeleteI'd also like to underscore Elizabeth's recommendation that you ALL read the online article from GaleGroup about Racism and Homophobia in the context of the play and the historical era. Clearly the background is valuable. Thanks all! See you in the Black Box soon!
I'd like to provide a two-fold counter to Reckas' post:
ReplyDelete1) 1.2.112-121 Portia and Bassanio HAVE met before, or have at least encountered each other once, when "in [Portia's] father's time, a Venetian, a scholar and a soldier...came hither in the company of the Marquess of Montferrat." When Bassanio speaks with Antonio about Portia's beauty in 1.1.168-177, he's speaking from memory, *not* from rumor. And, even if they *haven't* met, Portia still agrees with Nerissa that "he, of all men that ever my foolish eyes looked upon, was the best deserving a fair lady."
2) This is Shakespeare: the same person who is credited with Romeo and Juliet (which, although a tragedy, still applies here). 1.5.45-54: "O, she doth teach the torches to burn bright!
It seems she hangs upon the cheek of night
Like a rich jewel in an Ethiope's ear;
Beauty too rich for use, for earth too dear!
So shows a snowy dove trooping with crows,
As yonder lady o'er her fellows shows.
The measure done, I'll watch her place of stand,
And, touching hers, make blessed my rude hand.
Did my heart love till now? forswear it, sight!
For I ne'er saw true beauty till this night." At this moment in the play, Romeo has entered the Capulet household and has just seen Juliet - for the first time in his life. While I'll grant that Romeo is an immature hopeless romantic with little control over his emotions, he still demonstrates that Shakespeare was a creative author, *not* a realist, and he took creative license with his character's emotions. It is entirely possible that Portia and Bassanio first fell in love - or began to fall in love - after seeing each other ONCE while Portia's father was still alive, and that their initial attachment has only grown over the years.
I hate to quote myself, because it seems rather arrogant, but I said, "From what little I know of the text, the two 'lovers' have only met once". To reiterate, I was well aware of the fact they had met. I simply did not think that justifies love, especially when one considers that Bassanios relationship with Antonio is more important than his relationship with Portia
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